Dave,

1) According to Chris Martin's book there were several racers in the 200s during the 1960 season: Garlits and Malone, 204.54, Brunswick Ga; Lyle Fisher, 204.54, Cordova; Garlits and Malone, 200.00, Alton. Also K Chatagnier/Kent's Speed Shop, 197 and 201, Houston. Also a slew of 190+ times, including a 190.27 from Jack Chrisman at Henderson, NV, and a 195+ by Chrisman at Roanoke, VA.

2) As to Garlits’ speeds and ETs, I was using the NHRA record book. But a quick look at Martin’s book shows the next pass even close -- aside from a 5.64 that Garlits ran at Green Valley in 1977 -- was a Marc Danakas pass of 5.68 at Indy in 1980. Garlits did go 5.73 twice that year. In 1981 Minor got a 5.570 flat at Orange County and J Ruth and Muldowney got 5.57 slips at Spokane (sure). At Indy that same year Jeb Allen went 5.62, Beck 5.633, Danakas 5.632, and Dwight Salisbury 5.637.

3) Dave, all I'm saying and the only point I was trying to make was that I believe it was POSSIBLE for Karamesines to have run that number. I made that as clear as I could in my editorial. If you choose not to believe that, that's your prerogative, but using a magazine article to support your belief and take potshots at a great racer and really fine gentleman, basically calling him a liar, is wrong and in my opinion and beneath you.

4) Your fame is assured when you write in a mag with 750,000(?) subscribers.

5) What's the fact that you have been a Karamesines fan longer than I have got to do with anything?

Dave, we don't agree on many things and I love a good argument. Hell, you converted me to a Nostalgia Nitro fan, but none of this is personal I hope. I can only assume you read what I wrote. If you have, then you know that at no point did I ever say that it was a sure thing that the Greek ran the number or that your claim was wrong. I even mentioned the timing systems. I said clearly that in my opinion the facts as I understood them supported the possibility. I don't think my journalistic reputation, nor yours, will be damaged by this deal. It is simply a drag racing version of point-counter point and unless the subject comes up again, as far as I'm concerned the case is closed.

Yer pal, Jeff

Sorry, none of those times were credible. Just take a look at the Drag News Standard 1320 (meaning "certified clocks, distance and two-percent backup") record list from 1960 to 1964.

If there was any credibility to those reported 200s, why would so many veterans (Ivo, Breedlove, Milodon, Logghes, Nye Frank, Mooneyham, and more) build streamliners in 1962-64 for the sole purpose of "breaking The Barrier" (drag racing's first major speed barrier)?  All of them realized that the extra body weight would kill e.t., yet went ahead with purpose-built heavyweights -- YEARS after the first supposed 200 passes were publicized (even before 1960)?

Further, it took a couple state-of-the-art 1964 Woody cars with state-of-the-art 1964 horsepower (i.e., Brissette and Zeuschel) and tires and the world's single-best combination of air and traction (in Long Beach) and then-brand-new Chrysler zoomies to hit 199, then 200 -- four YEARS after a K-88 on recapped slicks supposedly did it?

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